Member Since: 06 Nov 2008
Location: Off the Plain
Posts: 1593
Mine was on the other side, but yes it was a mist - everything was soaked in it.
29th Dec 2020 10:29 am
Objective
Member Since: 28 Dec 2020
Location: UK, but locked down in Greece
Posts: 15
Had breakdown cover, but its now a casualty of the unplanned 7 months of lockdown.
There's also the matter of Greek Road tax, which will be a mystery to me until I try driving out of Greece. I have insurance and British road tax covered, as the instructions are English.
29th Dec 2020 10:36 am
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5061
Objective wrote:
Top of the engine is dry, and starts getting messy just below the LHS injectors (so hoping they are seated OK). Then there's a mess of pipework, which I'd be guessing which is high pressure. I'll google "injector leak-off pipe" (many thanks - invaluable) but just from the rate of dripping onto the exhaust manifold, I'm hopeful its a fuel-line rupture - just 'normal pressure' from the fuel pump at the rear.
I'm keen not to have the billowing fuel vapour effect again, so I'll keep my investigations to 2-3 mins engine run time, and then switch off to let the manifold cool again. Would you know where a schematic (or better, some photos) of the pipe layout can be found. I'll be feeling around (unless I can find an endoscope . . .!)
Many thanks Prof, you've already been a great help. I'll report back soon.
Paull
If as you say it starts getting messy below the l/h/s injectors the fuel leak is very likely to be here.
The metal pipework is the high pressure side, if you look at the injectors you can see on one side these metal pipework connections. Then, on the other side the plastic connection for the leak off pipe which is sheathed in a heat resistant material. It is this leak off pipe (excess fuel return) which can fail and this is the likely culprit as the engine will run rough if it was the high pressure side, but be careful anyway!
This is a pic of the leak off pipe with one of the 6 locating clips being removed. It is from a D3 but very similar! You can see how dry this area should be!
Click image to enlarge
yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
29th Dec 2020 3:06 pm
Objective
Member Since: 28 Dec 2020
Location: UK, but locked down in Greece
Posts: 15
That's a great photo - I can key it with the 'Seimens' badge (or what's left of it) on my vehicle.
Looks like the leak is further down than the high pressure pipework, but what do you think?
I've tried to upload photos before, but it just keeps failing - see if this works this time . . .
29th Dec 2020 6:23 pm
Objective
Member Since: 28 Dec 2020
Location: UK, but locked down in Greece
Posts: 15
Damn, still no luck with my photos
29th Dec 2020 6:26 pm
Objective
Member Since: 28 Dec 2020
Location: UK, but locked down in Greece
Posts: 15
29th Dec 2020 6:31 pm
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8243
:thumbsup:guess you’ve got the hang of it.It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
29th Dec 2020 6:31 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5061
Have you removed the engine cover?
The pics are showing the side of the engine, egr, fuel rail, and part of the leak off pipe. If you get inside the engine cover and pull back the shield you will have better access to where the leak might be originating!yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
29th Dec 2020 8:23 pm
Objective
Member Since: 28 Dec 2020
Location: UK, but locked down in Greece
Posts: 15
Yes, engine cover removed - attached photo.
On the other photos the top of the engine is reletively dry and clean, so I just showed the area affected - LHS and you can see the line I referred to is below what looks like a gasket line, below the injectors.
I guess the oily carbon could be fuel mixed with road dust, since the leak could have been there from the repair (around 200km ago) and the fuel blown around the lower engine.
I'll clean it all off as best I can (brake cleaner?), and dismantle what won't disable the car completely.
I'll also get that video and some clearer pictures.
I also found this video on a completely unrelated topic that (around 5:30) shows the view through the LHS wheel arch. I wonder if I took a similar approach, took out the wheel arch liner and front LHS wheel, I might get better access and identify the problem.
Does anyone have an opinion on if this might work?
Thanks to the Prof and everyone else for being here.
Paull
30th Dec 2020 6:32 am
Objective
Member Since: 28 Dec 2020
Location: UK, but locked down in Greece
Posts: 15
O.K. Bright, sunny day and I think I've got it . . . or thereabouts!
In fact, I think I have two problems.
The first is the fuel.
I have a video of leaking fuel, with only some doubt as to where it is coming from. It <<looks>> like the end union of what looks to be the common high pressure fuel-rail for the injectors. There is a screw-on union that might have blown its seal.
The other option <might> be the inside injector that is spurting high pressure fuel over that same end union, making it look like the furl-rail union is at fault. (What a B...stard
Of course, that inside injector is a legendary inaccessible unit, but then is the rail any better?
I've got a pretty clear video of the tinkling fuel, which then drips down onto the exhaust manifold, which would account for the steaming fuel vapour I first saw.
30th Dec 2020 9:43 am
Objective
Member Since: 28 Dec 2020
Location: UK, but locked down in Greece
Posts: 15
My second problem :
Looks like a spark is discharging from the injector electrics (middle injector) onto the engine body.
Fuel mist and a spark - legendary !
As is clear in the photo, the heat of a stationary summer seems to have dried out all the insulation tape on the wiring loom. Most have just given up and started to unwind. I'm sure that I see a discharge leap around 15mm from one of these unwound connections onto the engine body. I'm surprised - I wouldn't have thought the voltage on these wires would be high enough.
I hope its just a case of rewinding new tape. Any opinions on this would be very gratefully received.
30th Dec 2020 9:50 am
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8243
It could be the injector copper seal has failed possibly through not being tightened sufficiently, it may not be a spark but a flame from the combustion of that cylinder, it usually leaves a glazed deposit on surrounding areas. You would not notice any reduction in performance and can be a sorch of fire and unburnt fuel would be a fine spray.
If that is the fault the copper seals are expensive as they come in sets and are part of the loom on a D3, but the exact same seal is fitted to Freelander 2 TD4 and can be bought single.It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
30th Dec 2020 12:31 pm
Objective
Member Since: 28 Dec 2020
Location: UK, but locked down in Greece
Posts: 15
[quote="PROFSR G"]
Objective wrote:
Click image to enlarge
Hi Prof, Thanks for that great image you sent. The leak <<looks>> like its coming from the union your image shows on the far right bottom, the rust brown union. Is this difficult to access?
Hope you can give me an opinion.
Paul
30th Dec 2020 3:54 pm
PROFSR G
Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 5061
Hi Paul, if it is that union it's unusual for it to spring a leak unless it has been previously disturbed.
Usually it's the leak off pipe that fail due to age and heat, but if you're sure its that union your best bet is to nip it up. Just be aware you are looking at two threaded unions here! Firstly there is the small (rust colour) union which screws into the injector, then the fuel pipe union from the fuel distribution rail (silver) is fastened to onto that.
This part of the system carries very high pressure, and is positively dangerous if the high pressure stream hits your skin. So please be careful here!! Wait a minute or two after the engine has been turned off. Make sure all loose debris and gunk is cleaned away, and then loosen the injector pipe from the distributor rail. Then hold the small union on the injector whilst loosening the larger fuel pipe union. You can then remove the pipe out of the way, but be absolutely clear, no dirt or even the smallest particles should get into the open pipe or injector.
Now check the tightness of the small union on the injector and nip it up if necessary. Replace the fuel pipe and hand tighten the unions. You will now need to hold the small injector union whilst you tighten the fuel pipe onto it. Don't over tighten or you risk thread damage. Lastly nip up the pipe where it attaches to the fuel rail. Make sure all is clean and dry, then start the engine with the oil cap in place but keep away and let it run for about 30 secs. Switch off and wait 2 mins before checking for leaks. If it's dry, start the engine again and run it for a longer period whilst carefully checking at a distance if there is a leak.
Sorry if that's long winded but I'm concerned that you should not come into contact with high pressure fuel stream. yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
