Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4628
Suck it and see eh?
I wonder how others got on with it. I can say in my use it definitely gets a smokey diesel past the testers.yµ (idµ - eAµ) ψ=mψ
29th Apr 2019 9:08 pm
Farmer Col
Member Since: 05 Jan 2017
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 263
I stuck some Archoil 6400D Max in my last tank of fuel to see what would happen if anything, in an attempt to clean the injectors/DPF/CAT, and so far it seems to be working. I have never been able to get more than 400 miles out of a tankful of Diesel, and so far I'm on 326 with approximately 1/3 of a tank left. This includes an eighty mile round trip with a 16ft Ifor Williams trailer on the back.
30th Apr 2019 9:39 am
blademaster
Member Since: 20 Dec 2010
Location: South Warwickshire
Posts: 7
Re: Fuel additives
Farmer Col wrote:
Just wondering what people's views are on fuel additives. I used to put some in my old Disco, but after spilling some on on my temporary doorstep and seeing it dissolve I thought hell!
On the other hand after seeing the state of a cylinder head off my mate's Mustang that he bought recently I think I might start using some again
The fuel additives on diesels in particular tend to be some sort of surfactant. Based on eucalyptus oil as its base component. (often green in colour).
What this does is reduce the surface tension of the diesel fuel. As a result, if you have any water within the fuel system (and you probably do) it will be absorbed into the fuel. This emulsification of diesel then passes through the fuel system with ease as the water droplets tend to be below a micron in size. (fuel filters might only take out 5 micron and its not absolute anyway or a coalesce)
As a result the calorific value of the fuel increases as the water droplets combust and cause a more fierce burn. Hence more power and or better fuel economy.
Its ok to use in most engine to a point. I know my TD5 defender and Ford Ranger loved it...…..however beware!
Some more modern injectors have no moving parts. Example Iveco engines inject by electrifying crystals rather than a solenoid. I have seen the additive I use destroy my friends Iveco injectors within 300 miles. Also the more fierce burn can cause hot spots on the tip of the injector, burning them out over time.
I haven't the balls to put it in my D4 yet as I don't know if the injectors will take it.
Sorry for the long response but worth reading I hope? might save you a set of injectors.Discovery 4 XS
Discovery 2 ES
Ford Kuga Titanium
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6th May 2019 5:34 pm
Globetrotter448
Member Since: 21 Mar 2017
Location: Londonderry NSW
Posts: 1782
Does that mean you could put 10 ml of eucalyptus in a tank of fuel and get similar results.
7th May 2019 12:25 am
blademaster
Member Since: 20 Dec 2010
Location: South Warwickshire
Posts: 7
No! Discovery 4 XS
Discovery 2 ES
Ford Kuga Titanium
Honda Civic Type R GT
Saab 9-5 Vector Sport Hirsh
Saab 9-3 Turbo Coupe
7th May 2019 8:55 am
Maxime
Member Since: 12 Apr 2019
Location: Trier
Posts: 35
I bought my D3 with 166000km and thought it would be useful to use Millers Ecomax Diesel Power to clean up a bit. No clue if it makes sense, but 18 Euro is one of the lowest investments in a Discovery liftetime...
7th May 2019 9:13 am
Farmer Col
Member Since: 05 Jan 2017
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 263
Blimey! Injectors cooked in 300 miles I assume your friend was using it at the correct rate, because one would assume these products are tested throughly, otherwise they would have a heap of lawsuits to deal with
7th May 2019 10:35 am
blademaster
Member Since: 20 Dec 2010
Location: South Warwickshire
Posts: 7
Its not that simple.
Manufacturers of the fuel system recommend using BS EN590 fuel (see pump next time you fuel up).
EN590 has an ISO cleanliness code of 18/16/13 and water content below 200PPM.
whatever you put in your car, if it has a fuel failure the manufacturer will sample your tank and send the fuel sample to an independent laboratory for testing. If the fuel fails the above codes then they wont be obliged to accept the warranty claim. Blaming contaminated fuel. You cant tell by looking at it.
Now the last few times I watched a fuel tanker driving down the road, the pipes that transfer the fuel were externally mounted collecting all the rain or dust from the road as it went by.
What if that gets washed through the pipes into the forecourt tanks. So are we buying clean fuel in the first place?
Did you ever fill up from a fuel can?
Who did what before you bought the car?
So maybe its harder than one might think to get a claim on a fuel related warranty.
Not that I know or am suggesting anything other than a hypothetical theory........ Discovery 4 XS
Discovery 2 ES
Ford Kuga Titanium
Honda Civic Type R GT
Saab 9-5 Vector Sport Hirsh
Saab 9-3 Turbo Coupe
8th May 2019 9:50 am
Farmer Col
Member Since: 05 Jan 2017
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 263
I take your point about cruddy fuel. Having handled lots of Red Diesel in my time I can confirm that it can have lots of crap in it.
But thinking about additives, they must be similar to what fuel companies put in their premium fuels.
I've always understood that these fuels are better for your engine than regular fuel, but the extra additive they put in is not worth the extra money that you pay, and you are better off putting in a good additive yourself.
The PDF/CAT cleaners are potentially a different kettle of fish, because they are obviously much stronger stuff and only meant to be used every few thousand miles, but I would have thought that the everyday additives that you put in your tank every time you fill up should be relitively harmless.
I stress that I am no expert and could be talking complete cobblers!
I was hoping that a boffin would post on this thread and say that additives are perfectly ok to use, or say for Gods sake don't put that in your fuel!
8th May 2019 9:41 pm
blademaster
Member Since: 20 Dec 2010
Location: South Warwickshire
Posts: 7
Diesel comes out of the same refinery doesn't it? Asda or Shell don't own their own infrastructure so the difference must be the additives they use. They aren't the same additives as you buy from Halfords.
What I know Land rover wise.
200, 300tdi, TD5 - I would use Fuel Doctor myself - cleaner burning, better fuel economy, less smoke under load - happy on cheap supermarket fuel. Use Shell or BP every 4th tank full.
TDV6/8 - I wouldn't use any off the shelf additives, but premium fuel if you can afford it. Shell and BP make good stuff that burns clean and improves starting and fuel economy. Keeps the fuel system cleaner. Dont do short journeys if you can help it and let the vehicle regenerate itself to keep the DPF alive. I havent seen good results with fuel tank induced cleaners, its a band aid not a fix.
One simple rule that costs nothing that will make your vehicle more reliable is never fill up your car if the tanker is on the forecourt. The tanker dumps at high volume and stirs up the bulk tanks and any sediment or water gets mixed up into the clean fuel. Then you get it through the pump.
The current fuel we are buying contains fatty acid methyl ester at about 7%. It goes off over 6 to 12 months and grows bacteria. Its never a good idea to leave diesel in anything for long periods of time.
Lastly, fuel economy in winter is never as good as summer fuel as splash mixed with paraffin to stop the fuel waxing up in cold weather.
If you buy petrol? Tesco 99 all day long its great stuff. I get more power out of it more consistently than Shell.
Just a few pointers if you have an interest in fuels........... Discovery 4 XS
Discovery 2 ES
Ford Kuga Titanium
Honda Civic Type R GT
Saab 9-5 Vector Sport Hirsh
Saab 9-3 Turbo Coupe
9th May 2019 7:48 am
Farmer Col
Member Since: 05 Jan 2017
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 263
Umm, I still think from my armchair research that premium fuels are overpriced for what they are. Yes, they are better than ordinary fuels, but not worth the extra money that you have to pay for them, because the extra additive is not justified by the increase in cost.
You have to remember that fuel companies don't actually want you to use less fuel.
I have heard of one fuel wholesaler refusing a fuel additive package that reduced fuel consumption by 5%, because they already had one that only reduced it by 2.5%!
13th May 2019 12:53 pm
Jubbly
Member Since: 20 Nov 2016
Location: Stourbridge
Posts: 401
I’ve never found one that’s given me any substantial gains worth the cost of the additive.
I don’t bother now.Jaguar I-Pace HSE imminent.
Gone HSE with Flappy Paddles. IID BT tool. RLD Spare Protector, Altox GPS.
28th May 2019 10:22 pm
Farmer Col
Member Since: 05 Jan 2017
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 263
After I put in a CAT/PDF cleaner my fuel consumption fell by about 10%, this included about 100 miles towing a 16ft Ifor Williams trailer. Am now on the next tank of fuel, so it will be interesting to see if it is sustained.
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hell!
I assume your friend was using it at the correct rate, because one would assume these products are tested throughly, otherwise they would have a heap of lawsuits to deal with 
