Member Since: 22 Jun 2011
Location: southampton
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good on him iggy i just think the masses going to uni trend is all wrong
the masses being ABLE to go if their academically talented enough is brilliant but its wasted on 70% of the masses . Unfortunately the peer pressure combined with parents wanting to crow that little johnny goes to " never heard of it west of who knows where uni " seems overwhelming. glad the tide is turning but apprenticeship seen to be getting dumbed down now as well
i was only looking at my old British Rail set yesterday with my old chaps signature on and all the fancy writing ,,brought a tear to my eye he was a proud man that day i can tell you MY05 SE D3 Manual my first LR what a car
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8th Mar 2018 5:27 pm
Slobbox
Member Since: 10 Jul 2015
Location: Ribble Valley
Posts: 307
It all depends on the Student my daughter finished Uni 2 years ago and got a masters in Engineering.
My son is just starting to look at them now to study Biochemistry,
My youngest on the other hand would do better to leave at 16 and start an apprenticeship. There would be no way he will make it through another 5 years of education even though he goes to a Grammar school and I will do my best to talk him out of it.Stephen
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8th Mar 2018 9:29 pm
mark the spark
Member Since: 22 Jun 2011
Location: southampton
Posts: 2477
totally agree slobbox each to their own just seems many seem pressured one wayMY05 SE D3 Manual my first LR what a car
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9th Mar 2018 9:34 am
Someone-Gone
Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117
A lot of degree knocking.
9th Mar 2018 10:08 am
mark the spark
Member Since: 22 Jun 2011
Location: southampton
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not Knocking real degrees at all my oldest passed out of Bristol (the real one ) with a first and an offer and started with Rolls Royce so its definitely can be a worthwhile route for those with the ability, for her other siblings it would be a waste of their best talents
im just saying its not for all, there are other routes MY05 SE D3 Manual my first LR what a car
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9th Mar 2018 10:16 am
Someone-Gone
Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117
I can’t see the point in some of the more obscure degrees and lets be honest, some of the entry requirements for Uni are little better than an 11 plus exam.
But for others, it’s very, very hard work particularly if you want to study Medicine, Dentistry, Veterinary etc. I had no idea until my eldest wanted to go down this route. I’d support him no matter what, but it certainly wasn’t my idea or pressure from me.
9th Mar 2018 10:33 am
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13881
My daughter finishes her A levels this year. She wants to be a paediatric nurse so has to go to uni and needs and A, B, B to get in either at Southampton or Guildford. Her training is a mix of hands on and lectures so i'd have thought something along the lines of an apprenticeship would have been ideal, particularly with the shortage of nurses in the NHS.
Its interesting how the school (its private in Bath) has changed its approach to further education over the past few years. Previously it was all about going on to uni but now it has a much broader approach and apprenticeships are very much a focus. This year has been particularly good, with many leavers getting really good apprenticeships that give them a good starting wage of £20k+, vocational hands on training and a degree at the end of it.
Unis need to start to wake up to what they are offering and school leavers need to broaden their horizons and also life skills and experiences. Too many are unemployable when they get their degrees but have unfortunately have a skewed perspective of their worth / value.New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
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9th Mar 2018 11:21 am
Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
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mark the spark wrote:
not Knocking real degrees at all my oldest passed out of Bristol (the real one ) with a first and an offer and started with Rolls Royce so its definitely can be a worthwhile route for those with the ability, for her other siblings it would be a waste of their best talents
im just saying its not for all, there are other routes
That's the latest trend, "Oh I'm at Bristol" or "I'm at Oxford" when what they actually mean is I am at the University of West of England or Oxford Brookes, which happen to be in the same city but aren't the same thing. A bit like I own a Range Rover when you own an Evoque.
I really do think that University should be come more elitist, those that are academically able should go and go free of charge and then have degree based apprenticeships for those that don't want the Uni experience or are going to end up in occupations that aren't going to pay massively that were always viewed as more trained on the job such as nursing and veterinary nursing. Moo I think you're spot on a handful of certificates matters diddly squat if you can't apply that knowledge in the real world.DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
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9th Mar 2018 11:34 am
mark the spark
Member Since: 22 Jun 2011
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To try to be even handed and not just degree bashing the one thing i will say for unis regardless of the quality of the degree is it does seem to be a great experience and they grow as individuals and make a lot of friends from all over the country / world so from that perspective its rarely a negative experience ....MY05 SE D3 Manual my first LR what a car
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If university is free, it will always be over-subscribed. At that point you have to set an arbitrary limit on numbers in complete ignorance of what the correct level is, and the university system ends up a closed cartel. Money will go to worthless courses that are highly profitable for the universities but give little to no return to the students or wider society, and it's all paid for by those who don't have the luxury of attending. There's no incentive for innovation, to tailor courses to the needs of students and employers, and students don't face the true responsibility to ensure their course is going to be worthwhile.
Instead we should do the opposite - scrap all subsidies to university attendance and student loans. All of it. Nill. Nothing. Zilch. There are not the externalities required to justify public expenditure on such a level of education - A-levels are questionable too; maybe even GCSEs.
Universities will then have to fund themselves by other means - by taking equity in the students. "You go to universsity now for free and we'll get X% of your income above £Yk for the next Z years." Then they have skin in the game. Their service actually has to benefit their students; it has to offer the skills that are in demand. We might even get a senario where universities will guarentee a level of income or a job offer to their students.
No more wasting the time of students who end up with a degree that is worthless and loaded with debt, no diluting the achievements of those who are genuinely capable, no cross-subsidies, and no student loan bubble. Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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To try to be even handed and not just degree bashing the one thing i will say for unis regardless of the quality of the degree is it does seem to be a great experience and they grow as individuals and make a lot of friends from all over the country / world so from that perspective its rarely a negative experience ....
Indeed, but if this is all they get out of it, it means it is paid for by someone else, and the opportunity cost in the form of wages not earned and of valuable skills not learned is considerable. Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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9th Mar 2018 1:11 pm
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 13881
Lost for Words wrote:
If university is free, it will always be over-subscribed. At that point you have to set an arbitrary limit on numbers in complete ignorance of what the correct level is, and the university system ends up a closed cartel. Money will go to worthless courses that are highly profitable for the universities but give little to no return to the students or wider society, and it's all paid for by those who don't have the luxury of attending. There's no incentive for innovation, to tailor courses to the needs of students and employers, and students don't face the true responsibility to ensure their course is going to be worthwhile.
Instead we should do the opposite - scrap all subsidies to university attendance and student loans. All of it. Nill. Nothing. Zilch. There are not the externalities required to justify public expenditure on such a level of education - A-levels are questionable too; maybe even GCSEs.
Universities will then have to fund themselves by other means - by taking equity in the students. "You go to universsity now for free and we'll get X% of your income above £Yk for the next Z years." Then they have skin in the game. Their service actually has to benefit their students; it has to offer the skills that are in demand. We might even get a senario where universities will guarentee a level of income or a job offer to their students.
No more wasting the time of students who end up with a degree that is worthless and loaded with debt, no diluting the achievements of those who are genuinely capable, no cross-subsidies, and no student loan bubble.
I like this New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!)
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
9th Mar 2018 2:43 pm
Someone-Gone
Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117
You need a 3/4 year degree for any type of Nursing these days.
It is an equal mixture of placements and lectures, with essays and exams.
But far from an apprenticeship, they are used to man up on wards - 37.5 hours a week and don’t get paid for it. They also dont get Uni holidays, it’s 1 week in the Spring, 2 weeks Summer, 1 week Autumn and 2 weeks Christmas.
All that for a £22k-£28k Band 5 nurse when they qualify. That’s how much we are a society put a value on nurses.
Not knocking Police Officers, but they get paid that from the day they start their two year probation or “apprenticeship”.
9th Mar 2018 4:58 pm
RRSTDV8
Member Since: 07 Apr 2014
Location: Here
Posts: 13079
Make employers pay for degrees if they want degree-qualified staff.
Make employers pay for vocational training if they want staff with those qualifications.
We keep hearing from politicians and others that "employers want this or that set of skills". Fine, you want it, you pay for it. Train the staff you need and want and then do what you can to keep them.
The workforce is expected to second guess what employers want, fund the training themselves, and then hope they can get the job at the end of it all.
I did my degree on day release from work. My employer paid for it and I signed an agreement to "stay or repay" for an agreed period of time after graduation.Visiting from rrsport.co.uk
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^^^^
Employers do pay for the qualifications of their staff - the value is just not what it "should" be or was thought to be. The all-important price mechanism that directs students and employers alike has been upended so it's hard for both to identify the correct course of action.
The Dundonian wrote:
That’s how much we are a society put a value on nurses.
Nope; that's the price - probably a wrong one - that is set by a socialised healthcare system. It does not represent the value of anything. Current: Discovery 3 06MY (55 reg) HSE Auto Zambezi Silver Allisport Fast Road Intercooler, V8 Brakes, Silicone IC Hoses, EGRs Blanked, Remapped, De-Cat pipe, FBHIC
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i just think the masses going to uni trend is all wrong
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