Member Since: 18 Apr 2012
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 3626
Emperors new clothes
Seems to me that the new D5 has very little to offer over a last of the D4 aside from:
1. Electric seats in case your OCD doesn't let you touch them but you are happy to anti bac your phone
2. 20cm max ridge height in a wade
3. Adaptive cruise
4. Electric deployable tow bar if you are too lazy to take tow bar off
5. Gesture tailgate in case you fancy waving and dangling a foot around to open you tailgate but be careful in case you shin the deplorable tow bar
6. 5mpg avaerage if you are lucky with last gen engines
Can anyone point me to any properly useful advantage that would warranty spending £75k on what a £39k car would give you?
Right now the Volvo T8 seems far bettend even the new Peugeot 3008 looks good!!MY15 DIY Black Pack (Better than factory and half the price!)
Prospeed rock/tree sliders w/steps
HSE Winter wheels
TransK9 B24
Travall Cargo Guard
Hatchbag
7th Apr 2017 10:54 pm
Russell
Member Since: 23 Aug 2007
Location: Kent
Posts: 10564
But how much is the T8MY17 D5 1st Edition Namib Orange
MY15 D4 HSE Kaikoura Stone
MY12 D4 HSE Nara Bronze Sold and gone
MY11 D4 HSE Stornaway Grey Sold and gone
D3 S spec Silver Sold and gone
Tow bar, full length roof bars, side steps, tow bar storage unit, surround camers.
D4 camera club
7th Apr 2017 11:06 pm
CraigP
Member Since: 22 Feb 2010
Location: East Yorks
Posts: 41
£75K I'm not spending anywhere near that. Nearer £52k for the SE 3litre. Ok it's not got the bells and whistles but it's got everything I want. Including electric tow bar and rear view camera.
8th Apr 2017 12:35 am
sportcoupe
Member Since: 29 Jan 2017
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 53
The D5 offers me a diesel engine I could not get in a D4.
The D5 is the only suv with a diesel engine and 2-speed transfer case available to me for under $70k.
8th Apr 2017 12:37 am
Fitzy73
Member Since: 09 Feb 2014
Location: Truro
Posts: 2407
Sadly my Volvo purchasing plans have been shot down as the good Mrs Fitzy informs me of her future plans for us to have a horse each, therefore 3,500kg towing limit will be required.
So not looking forward to the fact that at some point I might actually have to buy a D5 Andy
Seems to me that the new D5 has very little to offer over a last of the D4 aside from:
1. Electric seats in case your OCD doesn't let you touch them but you are happy to anti bac your phone
2. 20cm max ridge height in a wade
3. Adaptive cruise
4. Electric deployable tow bar if you are too lazy to take tow bar off
5. Gesture tailgate in case you fancy waving and dangling a foot around to open you tailgate but be careful in case you shin the deplorable tow bar
6. 5mpg avaerage if you are lucky with last gen engines
Can anyone point me to any properly useful advantage that would warranty spending £75k on what a £39k car would give you?
Right now the Volvo T8 seems far bettend even the new Peugeot 3008 looks good!!
Dubbs
You've made almost the same list as my "advantages" & "disadvantages" one we had before D5 launch.
Not knocking the D5 (why bother...it's there...it ain't going to miraculously alter...there's zero point in commenting) the quest for a true D3/4 replacement is still there minus one candidate.
The list we made:
~ Volvo...
~ Merc...
~ Jeep....
~ Toyota...
....Maybe something Korean
~ mA FFRR...Second hand....& a van to do the load lugging
~ A RRS .....second hand....& a van....accepting the loss of passenger space for five
.....Strangely the D3/4 criteria carried over sets a very high hurdle or set of hurdles to surmount
~ A second hand D4
I just wish & hope that:
LR marketing are reading, understanding & acting on the "situation"......a long wheelbase version.
LR making the Defender replacement the logical follow on to D3/4....in functional terms.
My D3 now takes on the role of the caretaker vehicle - to be kept good to serve on a bit (maybe not a bit) longer.
Would welcome the criteria you guys are using to list & choose.BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
8th Apr 2017 7:11 am
Someone-Gone
Member Since: 21 Dec 2015
Location: Gone
Posts: 5117
If you were looking for an iconic vehicle like the D3/4, then the D5 isn't it tbh.
8th Apr 2017 7:20 am
Winger Site Moderator
Member Since: 15 Feb 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 3428
Re: Emperors new clothes
dubbs wrote:
Can anyone point me to any properly useful advantage that would warranty spending £75k on what a £39k car would give you?
Right now the Volvo T8 seems far bettend even the new Peugeot 3008 looks good!!
I have considerable trouble following the logic. What you are implying is essentially no different from saying that if you get on a British Airways flight to New York, you have four different classes of travel to choose from: all will get you there in the same time (though not necessarily on time, if it is BA), but at vastly different costs, vastly different levels of comfort and vastly different levels of service.
However, in the end, they are all seats on an airplane.
What each passenger is prepared to pay for their seat, and what they expect to get for their money, is entirely an individual perspective on the travel choice. The same goes for car choice.
Can you compare a top of the model range (£75k) D5 with a Peugeot 3008? Of course, but it is hardly a useful comparison. The same would go for comparing a D5 with a Bentayga. Can you compare BA World Traveller with BA First? Of course, but that is hardly a useful comparison either, unless in all cases the only thing that concerns you is cost.
Cost is, of course, an important element; however, for some it is a considerably lower choice factor than for others.
8th Apr 2017 7:40 am
armalites
Member Since: 17 Aug 2013
Location: Herefordshire
Posts: 1918
@Winger, I'm not sure is exactly the right analogy for what Dubbs is saying
"I have considerable trouble following the logic. What you are implying is essentially no different from saying that if you get on a British Airways flight to New York, you have four different classes of travel to choose from: all will get you there in the same time (though not necessarily on time, if it is BA), but at vastly different costs, vastly different levels of comfort and vastly different levels of service."
Using the airline analogy it's more like
Business class flight to New York is £7500 on the lastest new plane with the new seats and facilities but you can fly busines class for £3900 on a 2 year old plane that was designed 8 years a go on the same airline.
I could argue the same against Dubbs £50K D4 purchase, in real terms all things that we like about our D3 are no different on a car that cost 7 times as much.
All that said when you get to a certain level of car it's not really about value for money anymore it's about having something new/latest/unusual.
The bit thats scares me these days is you could win a million on the lottery and you kiss goodbye to 1/10th of it just to buy a Discovery.
I'm not a fan of the new one based purely on looks and the movement away from the working/family vehicle it once was but I felt like that about Landrovers before that I now like.
Comedy thing with my belief that they have moved away from working vehicle is that other than the Landrover Experience/Test vehicles that go past my place the first one of seen on the road, a metallic green one had a 16ft Ifor on the back IID PRO
MSV Extreme
Nanocom One
Last edited by armalites on 8th Apr 2017 8:19 am. Edited 3 times in total
8th Apr 2017 8:08 am
Pelyma
Member Since: 06 Jan 2005
Location: Patching, Sussex
Posts: 15496
Excellent post John
At the end of the day you have to look at what you want from the car. If you want to tow up to 3.5t, be able to go anywhere, have good levels of the luxury, seat 7, have the budget then the D5 must be the best car on the market. If off-road prowess isn't a factor then maybe Volvo, BMW or Audi offerings are a better bet. If seating 7 isn't needed then maybe a RRS or FFRR are better and so on. There is of course one vehicle that is still in the shadows that might fit traditional Discovery owners better, the Defender replacement, some of the D5 decisions might then become clearer.DS3 TDV6 HSE - Silver with Alpaca (old one) Gone
DS3 TDV6 HSE- Silver with Alpaca (new one) Gone
D4 HSE Lux - Montalcino Red Gone
Porsche Cayenne V8 Diesel S
8th Apr 2017 8:08 am
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14487
I was hugely disappointed when I saw the D5. It had moved so far away from the do it all family / utility / leisure / exec car that the D3/4 were. What p 55ed me off most was the bull coming from LR that was trying to persuade me differently.Why anyone needs electric folding seats or to do a rendition of Riverdance to open the boot / drop the towbar is beyond me.
Anyway, I do have have something to be grateful to the D5, I used the cash I was going to buy one with to add another couple of properties to the portfolio which will add another £500K to my pension pot in 15 years. D4 HSE EU6 (Known as Jeeves)
New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!) Sold
Sold Volvo XC90 R-Design (known as Basil)
Sold - D4 HSE (Known as Gerty)
No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
V8 Front brakes
BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
EGRs blanked
T-Max split charge
Hanibal Expeedition rack
Prospeed ladder
Duratrac tyres
IID BT
BAS FBH control
LR have decided to alter the theme of the vehicle named Discovery....them changing the features can't alter my needs.....these also altered functional aspects - which most of us expect on a vehicle of this size & cost.
By features I mean lots of technological control things...button operated seats....specifically phone button....+ many more doo-dads.
By functional I mean load carrying capacity, seating accommodation, towing capability with BIG trailers.
I'll leave "off road" out as it would appear that this is there......if it wasn't the D5 would be a travesty.....just another MPV with a pedigree now with a runt in the litter.
My usual & immediate needs aren't a million miles away from others....some use back seats - others don't or at least don't with passengers who are looking for long journey comfort - adult passengers who won't be comfortable & will sing out.
Actually my needs have changed dramatically over the last 4-6 weeks I have a severe back problem that isn't going to heal up or go away (actually in hospital today having radio therapy)
I wil have to to use backs seats of my vehicle....& these will have to be as good as a Disco 3 minimum.
Perching on my bum with knees & thigh high - impossible.
It's not about being easily please it's about being accommodated.
I may speak to J/LR SVO to ask if they can do a D5 with appropriate seats.
Seats on aeroplanes
Yes massive variance in prices....the cost is what you are prepared to put up with...bus seats on Ryanair right to business & first class couches.....the best I've used is Korean airways busineess class
Seats on planes differ with those in cars.
Seats on planes are for hours at a time - some long journys some very short (longest continuous is Belfast to Blenheim 34 hours...Heathrow, Washington. LA, Auckland, Blenheim).... but it's only for hours not a continuous basis like a car....I regularly do six hours from here to Northern Ireland four passengers in car, lots of kit in luggage area.
So my search continues....BREXIT - done properly.
Right now ...We need Government - not Politics
Save the Dipstick Flagbearer-keep it simple, less likely to fail campaign-agenda items:Starting Handles, Acetylene Lamps.
Founder: Dipsticks-R-Us Inc
D3 HSE-perfectly formed, passenger friendly...has real DIPSTICK
Jag XK-but sadly no DIPSTICK...HUGE design fault
FL2 has DIPSTICK..."real comfort in rear seats"
VW Golf wondermobile (?)..has real DIPSTICK
Morris Minor..original DIPSTICK technology..and a real KEY.
8th Apr 2017 9:47 am
J77
Member Since: 03 Mar 2008
Location: Fife
Posts: 6272
Just purely my opinion but I don't see the need to go any higher than SE spec, it has pretty much everything you need, anything above SE has meaningless tech, electric folding seats and gesture tailgate, that some are having problems with. If I was able to get the 3.0 TD6 and LED headlights in the S then that would be my pick. I did look at it but pushed my dealer a bit and got into SE.23.5MY Defender 90 X-Dynamic SE D250 MHEV Pangea Green
8th Apr 2017 10:02 am
dubbs
Member Since: 18 Apr 2012
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 3626
Re: Emperors new clothes
Winger wrote:
dubbs wrote:
Can anyone point me to any properly useful advantage that would warranty spending £75k on what a £39k car would give you?
Right now the Volvo T8 seems far bettend even the new Peugeot 3008 looks good!!
I have considerable trouble following the logic. What you are implying is essentially no different from saying that if you get on a British Airways flight to New York, you have four different classes of travel to choose from: all will get you there in the same time (though not necessarily on time, if it is BA), but at vastly different costs, vastly different levels of comfort and vastly different levels of service.
However, in the end, they are all seats on an airplane.
What each passenger is prepared to pay for their seat, and what they expect to get for their money, is entirely an individual perspective on the travel choice. The same goes for car choice.
Can you compare a top of the model range (£75k) D5 with a Peugeot 3008? Of course, but it is hardly a useful comparison. The same would go for comparing a D5 with a Bentayga. Can you compare BA World Traveller with BA First? Of course, but that is hardly a useful comparison either, unless in all cases the only thing that concerns you is cost.
Cost is, of course, an important element; however, for some it is a considerably lower choice factor than for others.
Thanks for the reply - my logic is based around precisely your point. With a XC90, D4, D5 I perceive I am turning left on the aircraft, I am getting first class - this means a number of features that economy doesn't get:
More stewardesses
Free champagne upon embarking
comfier seats
Larger screen
More movies (possibly)
snacks
three course meal
red/white wine of a higher quality
better headphones
comfort pack
sleep suit
cooked brekkie
fast track through customs
I'm now looking at the features of the cars and working out what we get for our money these days in comparison. If I look at the interior of the D5 and compare with the FFRR, I'm turning left in both cases and I'd argue that the experience is so similar as to be identical.
So... coming back to my point - aside from being a badge snob, let's take an objective view and what are we really getting for the 68k a similarly specced D5 will be and what do I get over and above my D4
I have a D5 and an Outlander PHEV on my drive at the moment and I'm trying to make a like for like comparison to see what the £20k difference gets - literally doing this today as I'm keen to see the difference and try and answer my own question too.MY15 DIY Black Pack (Better than factory and half the price!)
Prospeed rock/tree sliders w/steps
HSE Winter wheels
TransK9 B24
Travall Cargo Guard
Hatchbag
13th Apr 2017 11:22 am
dubbs
Member Since: 18 Apr 2012
Location: Gloucestershire
Posts: 3626
In addition to the analogy.... Virgin are now running their upgraded upper class suite on their new aircraft and have refitted some of their old.
It's the same service, shiny new stuff, looks more funky, exciting and has been modernised to keep up with the times - I pay not a jot extra for that experience over the old one.
However the same thing has happened with the D5 and it's £7-10k more like for like!!!!
Driving the D5 today and I will give it something - in the flesh it is FAR better than the pictures, especially in my favourite Montalcino red - I'll back off on my odd looking statements now - it is a looker after all (even if the rear is still a little odd)MY15 DIY Black Pack (Better than factory and half the price!)
Prospeed rock/tree sliders w/steps
HSE Winter wheels
TransK9 B24
Travall Cargo Guard
Hatchbag
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55ed me off most was the bull coming from LR that was trying to persuade me differently.Why anyone needs electric folding seats or to do a rendition of Riverdance to open the boot / drop the towbar is beyond me.
