If it turns out that the spring wire is a cause, it would be easy enough to make one up from suitable material with a pair of pliers.
Another thing is that when I come to do the job, I'll make sure that the top, unpainted part of the filter is given a smear od silicone grease or copperslip to make sure it doesn't corrode. The wire is stainless so should be ok.
Also pays to give the tags on the bayonet fitting for the filter to the housing a bit of grease-makes it easier to refit and remove.Relocated to Mid France from N. Wales March 2021
Rovacomlite and IDD/ SSD diagnostics user
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28th Apr 2020 4:44 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13642
rowlejohn wrote:
Put my edit up before reading your post Gary.
Could well be that the Nerds at LR could use that input as an additional safety interlock with the in tank pump. Who knows unless there is access to the ECU code ???
Just had a thought (Again)!!
When I drained the sedimenter a couple of weeks ago, nothing came out of the open drain with the ignition in pos 2, nothing happened until I started the engine and it gushed out.
Raining here and forecast unsettled for the next couple of days so not getting underneath to fit it.
Another thought When I come to do it, I will scratch some paint off the filter body and check continuity between the body and the black wire on the body harness connector-if it's open circuit chances are that its a problem with the spring wire connection.
Stay safe & lucky folks
Glad u got it sorted out and indeed that’s the trouble as u start to think straight away of how things work in trying to understand them better
It was just an idea as indeed if a filter isn’t fitted if it indeed stops the fuel pump from running ??
Or something to do with monitoring temperature for the FBH to stop waxing
That’s again for sharing as indeed Greta to learn new things
Stay safe buddy
28th Apr 2020 4:48 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13642
rowlejohn wrote:
gstuart wrote:
That’s a great find mate
Assume a wire has to go back to the dashboard to illuminate the water in fuel warning lamp
All be done from the ECU and BCU not necessarily a hard direct wire from the sensors
Side thinking if that wire may be a temperature probe for the FBH
As in the details from the manual ????
Fuel Filter
The fuel filter is located in the engine compartment on the left hand side, packaged to be protected against damage. Incorporated in the fuel filter housing is a bimetallic temperature valve, which will start to close at 30°C (86°F) and will fully close at 50°C (122°F). This allows pre-heated diesel fuel to circulate inside the fuel filter to prevent waxing in cold operating conditions.
28th Apr 2020 4:53 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13642
Double post
28th Apr 2020 4:55 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13642
So maybe worked this it, famous last words,
when it drops below 7c degrees the FBH also send an electrical supply to the fuel filter , temperature of the diesel is sensed by that thin wire inside the filter housing as it sits inside of the diesel
Therefore reducing the waxing of the fuel
Assuming controlled by the ecu
Black wire is the water in diesel sensor , as the water probe sits inside the filter housing at the bottom , wondering if the probe sitting inside the diesel is also the heater
Had another look at the new housing this morning and I think Gary's thinking has some substance.
The short black wire with the eyelet that is clamped to the steel wire probe is stiffer than a normal single core cable of similar size.Given this and the fact that there is heatshrink over the crimp on the eyelet, I am almost sure that this short lead is in fact a Thermocouple.Maybe the steel wire is just a simple heat conductor to the now probable Thermocouple
I will perform a "Post Mortem" on the old unit when I get it off, strip the sheathing on the cables to see how many cores are there etc. and try and break up the encapsulation in order to see what lurks inside.Relocated to Mid France from N. Wales March 2021
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[img]https://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/53418/normal_WIF_Junction.bmp[/img]
Hi Guys....Quick update-Sorted
After struggling for a couple of hours trying to remove one corroded headed Mickey Mouse , cheapo, LR bolt (8mm A/F washered head on a M6 thread) which was also rusted in, I finally got to remove the bracket with top housing attached. No room for access to the three bolts which secure the housing to the bracket due to it's close proximity to the underside of the body.
Anyway, first job after splitting the housing from the bracket was to remove the black connection housing (See earlier pic's). When the connector was released from the housing, I could see that an eyelet type terminal had corroded and broken where it is connected to the connector (See pic) so it appears that the original design was for a ring type terminal which was an integral part of the connector. Looking at my earlier pic's , it can be seen that this has been modified to a short fly lead with the terminal attached. This makes a connection with the spring wire probe that makes contact with the top face of the Filter canister..the probe was still in place on the original housing.
Fitted the new housing, and my original Filter and sensor ( Filter has been on for only a couple of weeks, the water in fuel sensor is the original).
Connected all up and started engine, Water In Fuel Message came up briefly then disappeared, cleared logged fault and everything seems back to normal.
Thanks for all your input Guys, I will decimate the encapsulated connector in a day or so and put a few pics up
[img]https://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albums/userpics/53418/normal_WIF_Junction.bmp[/img]Relocated to Mid France from N. Wales March 2021
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4th May 2020 4:48 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13642
Hi mate
Really pleased it’s all sorted out
So ref that small internal piece of wire, so it indeed touched the filter
Look forward for when u get chance to take the rest apart plse
Yes, the spring wire probe was in contact with the filter but the corroded & broken eyelet was doing nothing.
The epoxy resin used for the encapsulation can be a pain to break up but I will give it a go.
I'm itching to see what it's hiding Relocated to Mid France from N. Wales March 2021
Rovacomlite and IDD/ SSD diagnostics user
Previous Landies
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4th May 2020 10:43 pm
gstuart
Member Since: 21 Oct 2016
Location: kent
Posts: 13642
Many thks, will be interesting to see what’s inside , wonder if that’s the sensor that sends a message back to the fuel pump , as in if no filter is fitted it won’t start the pump as a safety precaution
Which I assume then those wires must go back to the ecu to see if it sees the continuation of the wires
Yes, the spring wire probe was in contact with the filter but the corroded & broken eyelet was doing nothing.
The epoxy resin used for the encapsulation can be a pain to break up but I will give it a go.
I'm itching to see what it's hiding
Final update.....
Finally got around to decimating the encapsulated junction today and there is indeed a small PCB buried under the epoxy resin infill, all of the cables are single core, standard multi strand copper-nothing out of the ordinary. The Black wire to the WIF sensor very much appears to be linked internally to the Eyelet type terminal in contact with the spring probe which in turn contacts the top face of the metal bodied fuel filter element.
It appears that there is a Transistor/Triac mounted on the PCB.
I do not think that the filter element has a built in fuel pre heater.
The encapsulation was very hard to break up and I did not venture further as I am sure that it would have shattered into a multitude of fragments.
Click image to enlarge
I am certain that replacing the filter housing alone (Not the sensor) is the fix. No further problems.
Relocated to Mid France from N. Wales March 2021
Rovacomlite and IDD/ SSD diagnostics user
Previous Landies
3.9 SE Classic
3.5 V8 Disco
4.6 P38 HSE
L322 Vogue HSE
TD4 ES Freelander 1
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When I come to do it, I will scratch some paint off the filter body and check continuity between the body and the black wire on the body harness connector-if it's open circuit chances are that its a problem with the spring wire connection.
