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sbrown
Member Since: 30 Apr 2010
Location: S. Yorkshire
Posts: 86
  
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I know there has been a lot of chat on here about this and I've read most of it I think!!
I joined the forum recently as I'm looking at replacing my Nissan Navara with a Disco. It's currently my company vehicle and as such is great for tax purposes. This is where the commercial part of the Disco comes in!
I'd probably be looking at getting an XS and having it converted by the likes of Lakeland or Nene Overland, however, on my searching I found a listing for Discovery 4 XS 2.7 Commercial here...
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalW...e=document
Now I was pretty sure that that model doesn't exist and if it did or was one of the upcoming models it would be a 3.0?
Anyway, any advice would be appreciated on anywhere else i should be looking or any other information on the processes I'm looking at or how anyone else has 'tax efficiently' bought a Discovery as a company vehicle. I would actually prefer not to lose the back seats but between the VAT reclaim and the company car tax it's looking at my best option!
No doubt I'll have loads more questions coming up but I felt a bit guilt doing all this reading and not posting to introduce myself!!
Cheers
Steve
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 21st May 2010 6:35 pm |
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MartinR
Member Since: 27 Jan 2008
Location: Oxon
Posts: 708
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Take a look here:
http://www.landrover.com/gb/en/lr/discovery-4/explore/commercial/
It's "only" a 2.7 instead of the 3.0, and I note it has 18" wheels rather than 19", suggesting older style brakes too. Makes me wonder if it gets all the suspension tweaks that have gone into the D4 or if it's really a D3 underneath?
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| 21st May 2010 7:08 pm |
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victoriaEDT
Member Since: 01 Nov 2009
Location: Somerset
Posts: 89
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I have a D4 XS (non commercial) as my company vehicle (self employed) on lease where I claim back the full lease value (or the % that i use for business which is about 90%) to offset against my profit, therefore is a business expense.
if you want to know the price I pay - send me a message! 
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| 21st May 2010 8:18 pm |
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mwestcrew
Member Since: 24 May 2005
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 334
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So a little clarity regarding the tax on company vehicles.
The tax man considers the use of a vehicle to be a "benefit in kind"
You can be taxed on a vehicle BIK in a variety of ways depending upon your employment status.
If you are an employee of a company that provides you with a vehicle for your private use then a BIK is calculated as if you were paid the same amount in money which is then taxed at your personal rate. The BIK calculation in this case is based on a percentage of the new cost of the vehicle. This is the actual cost of the vehicle with any extras The percentage for each vehicle depends on it's CO2 emissions. The higher the CO2 the greater the percentage of the new cost of the car you will pay tax on annually.
That's why cars like BMW 320ds and 120ds are so good as company cars and why manufacturers are striving to reduce emissions (IMHO), not because they are so bothered about the environment but because low emission cars are best for fleet use and will shift more units.
If you are a company director you will pay the same amount of tax, based on the same calculation but the BIK will be entered on your annual form P11D.
Same applies to sole traders. They will get taxed via their self assesment return.
Obviously people try to avoid these taxes in various ways, one of which is claiming that a vehicle is a "pool car" and is only used occasionally to go from home to work, these scams rarely work for long before HMRC do a PAYE inspection or similar. On most inspections in my experience, one of the first things they ask is what vehicles the company owns and who has use of them. Vehicle BIK is an easy target.
If you lease a vehicle then you can claim the rentals against your company taxes as the vehicle is classed as plant or machinery........you can do the same if you buy a vehicle outright you just don't get the allowance straight away, you get it over a set number of years whereas with a lease you get relief on the payments as you make them, but you cannot end up owning the vehicle at the end of such a lease, it can only be sold to a third party. As an aside if you are VAT registered and use vehicle that is leased for personal use then only half of the VAT on the rentals can be claimed back.
If you use a vehicle for peronal use then a mileage record of that use should be kept and the company should not claim back the VAT on the fuel used for your private mileage
If a vehicle is leased, anyone who has personal use of it must pay tax on the BIK just as if the car was owned outright or on H.P.
Commercial vehicles (HMRC have very strict guidelines on what is classed as a commercial vehicle, criteria include: carrying capacity, percentage of load area to passenger area etc ) attract BIK tax on a fixed rate which is usually substantially less than a car. You can have personal use with or without fuel provided and the the two amounts are fixed.
If in doubt as to whether a vehicle is classed as a commercial then ask HMRC in writing, then when they ask you for £5k back tax for use of a 110SW because it has windows in the sides at the back you can say "sorry mate but I've got it in writing"
Many people avoid BIK taxation by buying their vehicle and charging their employer or business for their business use. This can only be done on a scale that is provided by HMRC and is capped at a certain mileage, most people doing this for a D4 would make a loss when considering insurance, maintenance, depreciation etc.
As far as I know the D4 commercial qualifies as a commercial and is only available as a 2.7TDV6 with lower spec, although I think there is one option big package that up the spec considerably. I know personally two people who have had Nene and Lakeland conversions accepted as commercials by HMRC. With a conversion you can have any spec you like and a 3.0
[/b] 2011 D4 Landmark, Mini Cooper SD Clubman, Range Rover Vogue SE
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| 22nd May 2010 4:25 pm |
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mwestcrew
Member Since: 24 May 2005
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 334
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Oooops forgot about the VAT. You cannot claim VAT on a car if you are buying it, either outright or on finance. You can claim VAT on the purchase of an approved commercial vehicle. As above you can claim VAT on lease rentals, but only half if the vehicle has personal use. 2011 D4 Landmark, Mini Cooper SD Clubman, Range Rover Vogue SE
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| 22nd May 2010 4:30 pm |
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Ken
Member Since: 20 Feb 2006
Location: Here
Posts: 10865
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BiK for a D3/4 Commercial equates to £100 pm @ 40% tax 
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| 22nd May 2010 4:47 pm |
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sbrown
Member Since: 30 Apr 2010
Location: S. Yorkshire
Posts: 86
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Thanks for the info. Went into a LR dealer today and had a chat. Was a lot more useful than the last dealer I went into who apparently couldn't be bothered to talk to me and didn't know any information on their products - obviously didn't want a sale. Sytners of Sheffield were good though!
The result was that the 3L commercial will be coming soon and there are options to upgrade it to an XS spec with option packs including one upgrade to the 245HP which leads me to believe the engine is slightly de-tuned as standard, seems a bit hefty as an £800ish+vat option though. They also said the MY11 vehicles information embargo will allow release on 17th July although there aren't that many changes.
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| 22nd May 2010 9:35 pm |
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mrandmrsh
Member Since: 25 Sep 2008
Location: Holmfirth
Posts: 487
 
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I suspect when the lower power version of the 3.0 engine is released people like BAS and TorqueTune will be able to turn the wick back up easily enough, and certainly for less that 800 quid! 2012 Defender 110 XS Utility 2.2
2012 D4 Commercial 255 8-speed, Active diff, lots of extras on order, comes Sept - ORDER CANCELLED (isn't divorce expensive....?)
2008/08 D3 HSE G4 - part exchanged for the 110
1987 110 CSW with 200 Tdi (now gone)
2007/57 D3 TDV6 HSE - NOW GONE owned 1/oct/08 to 31/dec/09
2007 Seat Altea Freetrack4 170 tdi (wife's car, wife now gone!)
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| 23rd May 2010 7:51 am |
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mwestcrew
Member Since: 24 May 2005
Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 334
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Do keep the warranty in mind though..... 2011 D4 Landmark, Mini Cooper SD Clubman, Range Rover Vogue SE
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| 23rd May 2010 8:04 am |
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Nick_W
Member Since: 18 Nov 2008
Location: Nottingham
Posts: 14
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I currently run a 07 D3 2.7 commercial but have now ordered the 3.0 litre commercial which my local dealer in Derby new nothing about, so I've gone elsewhere, there loss!
Anyhow I've fully spec'd mine with Nara Bronze, 20" 10 spoke alloys, Commercial Luxury Pack (HDD Sat Nav, Leather Seats), Colour Coded Arches etc, Dab, Ipod Link, Heated Seats, Mirrors & Windscreen so just about anything is possible and I even got a £1200 discount which is always a bonus!!!
You are correct though the engine is de-tuned though to 210bhp so I've had to pay £800+ Vat for the factory fit power upgrade to take it back to 240, seems like a bit of a scam to be honest but what can you do?
The only downside is late September/October delivery 
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| 29th May 2010 11:20 am |
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sbrown
Member Since: 30 Apr 2010
Location: S. Yorkshire
Posts: 86
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That's great information. Just being cheeky but any chance you could pm me the total cos and which dealer you used? Your spec looks very similar to what I'm after except I'd be looking at adding hids and maybe not the dab and the bigger wheels
Still seems a bit of a con for the power upgrade but the warranty side of things makes a big difference. I wonder what they actually do for that money?
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| 29th May 2010 12:29 pm |
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Q86ARR
Member Since: 23 Feb 2010
Location: Jersey
Posts: 379
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You get the bigger brakes and wheels with the extra power too
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| 29th May 2010 1:23 pm |
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