Member Since: 12 Feb 2013
Location: Fife
Posts: 6528
Thanks for that, like I said nothing wrong with it
Just wondered with being a group buy item
Who you would take it up with
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9th Jan 2015 5:47 pm
chopcat
Member Since: 08 Apr 2013
Location: Pembrokeshire
Posts: 478
So seeing as CTEK are not interested in what the problem with my MSX10 is I thought I would see if I could work it out.
On the bottom there are 6 screws and one is covered by an anti tamper red button. Pop this out and you can get to the final screw.
Inside you see this. lots of components stuck together in places with white stuff. Interestingly in mine the would torroid was flapping about which is something i will fix later.
rather worryingly I found water inside my guess it is mostly condensation but there was enough of it to have caused a problem.
Yes I have used it outside but it did say it was IP rated. In this pic you can see the water and also the 30A output fuse.
See discoloration on the the PCB my guess this is where the problem starts with the water
The output fuse was ok as expected as the symptoms the unit shows is a lack of power. So despite being told that there were no fuses inside by the CTEK man I did, in fact, find two. Here is the power fuse in and a mighty odd arrangement it is too. No fuse holder but a fuse with wires no both ends and the long one wrapped in a bit of heat shrink.
I put the meter on it whilst on the board and yes it has blown. so I took it out
and put it on the component tester again nothing.
So as I do not have a stock of mighty odd fuses I will need to go and get one and in the meantime I can leave it open to dry out.
Part Two to follow when I find a fuse shop.
CCmay the odds be ever in your favor
Last edited by chopcat on 9th Jan 2015 7:35 pm. Edited 1 time in total
9th Jan 2015 7:13 pm
chopcat
Member Since: 08 Apr 2013
Location: Pembrokeshire
Posts: 478
Turns out that it is a fuse with end caps on by looking at this
that should make it easiermay the odds be ever in your favor
9th Jan 2015 7:27 pm
rockcrawler
Member Since: 31 Oct 2012
Location: Ferring
Posts: 2884
Alan B wrote:
Thanks for that, like I said nothing wrong with it
Just wondered with being a group buy item
Who you would take it up with
I would take it up with our battery supplier who we ordered the Ctek's from. We spend a good amount of money every week ordering batteries and also ended up ordering around a hundred Ctek chargers on that group buy.D3 Metropolis Bonatti Grey-Alpaca Leather-adaptive headlights-fridge-EGR blanking kit-Harmen Karden-Cruise-4x4 info enabled-Tinted Windows-Heated F&R Seats-Rosen rear Entertainment-LED'S everywhere -Smoked Side Repeaters-Rear Aircon-Vredestein Wintrac 4 Extreme-Puddle and Footwell Lamps-Stainless Steel Side Protection Tubes- NEW ASHTRAY ( thanks to dsd1036 )
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9th Jan 2015 7:34 pm
chopcat
Member Since: 08 Apr 2013
Location: Pembrokeshire
Posts: 478
Wish I had done the group buy.....wouldn't be pioneering CTEK fuse replacements then.
Does anyone know if there should be this amount of water inside it?
CCmay the odds be ever in your favor
9th Jan 2015 7:37 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
chopcat wrote:
So seeing as CTEK are not interested in what the problem...
Inside you see this. lots of components stuck together in places with white stuff. Interestingly in mine the would torroid was flapping about which is something i will fix later.
….rather worryingly I found water inside my guess it is mostly condensation but there was enough of it to have caused a problem.
I am scratching my head. There are some really good bits of design inside that case and the goop around components and caps is a good thing in my view. What is not acceptable is the shoddy fuse location and the failed seal. The seal itself appears discoloured and there is no way an IP rated product should have so much water inside. Mine (7 amp and 10 amp) spend a great deal of time outside and have survived rain, snow and ice with no dramas.
I did have an 3.8 amp fail on me a year or 2 ago. I keep meaning to do a tear-down on it but your post has brought it to the top of my to-do list.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 08 Apr 2013
Location: Pembrokeshire
Posts: 478
from one of the component suppliers
The benefit of using axial leaded fuses is that they are typically cost-effective and easy to install whereas the primary negative factor is that they are not so easy to replace in the field
so in other words ...cheap.
any suggestions for a better replacement??
CCmay the odds be ever in your favor
9th Jan 2015 9:26 pm
chopcat
Member Since: 08 Apr 2013
Location: Pembrokeshire
Posts: 478
Having searched for a better fuse solution something like this could work.
ccmay the odds be ever in your favor
9th Jan 2015 9:39 pm
chopcat
Member Since: 08 Apr 2013
Location: Pembrokeshire
Posts: 478
An update;
I'm afraid that the water had got too far in to the CTEK and even when I got the fuse holder sorted there were sparks flying. But for anyone who wants to try and restore the fuse this is what I did to test it out.
Fuse holder with wires to extend and a rubber boot. the fuse is a 3.5A slow blow.
So with so much damage to the other components I could not go any further and just to make sure I was not tempted to waste more time on it I gave it the good old hammer test.
On the upside have salvaged the output cable and adapted my trusty optimate which I have had for over 10 years so that I can plug that into the disco to keep it topped up. The ring has the same sort of intelligent charging so I will carry on using that to manage the batteries as I doubt I can justify a punt on another CTEK.
may the odds be ever in your favor
10th Jan 2015 2:26 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
So finally got around to doing a tear-down on my Ctek 3.6 amp which failed about a year or so ago. Given the experiences above I was wondering if any moisture had got inside and if the seal had perished due to exposure to the elements.
Switching the unit on I get a STANDBY light but no response or any output voltage:
Click image to enlarge
No signs of a short on the output:
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With 0.2mV detected when power applied:
Click image to enlarge
So time for the internals. The back is secured with 4 x 2PH screws with no tamper protection:
Click image to enlarge
The seal felt quite grippy and quite elastic still:
Click image to enlarge
No sign of any gaps in the seal with zero contaminants. The date code shows this unit was made in 2008, so over 6 years old:
Click image to enlarge
Near the cable lock there was some fluid which appeared to be silicone:
Click image to enlarge
The output side looked perfect, with more silicone grease on the cable strain relief:
Click image to enlarge
Likewise on the mains input side:
Click image to enlarge
No signs of degradation on the inside with the transformer, MOVs and caps all in good order:
Click image to enlarge
Click image to enlarge
Flipping the PCB showed no apparent issues:
Click image to enlarge
Output side looks ok:
Click image to enlarge
Input side has one pad where the solder has not taken properly, but it still had a good connection:
Click image to enlarge
So on came the mains power and the tracing began. All looked good up to the mode microswitch on the 5v rail. However, pressing the switch had zero effect so it looked like a microswitch issue:
Click image to enlarge
Turning my meter to amps and moving the leads I shorted the pads across the microswitch and was able to change modes. You can see LED4 now lit:
Click image to enlarge
Output voltage reflected the mode selected by shorting across the switch.
So that is it. The only thing wrong with this Ctek after 6 years is a mechanically failed microswitch. I'll need to source a replacement from somewhere and suck the old one from the PCB and replace it. I was impressed with the state of the rest of the internals and the elasticity of the seal. With a new switch it should be quite happy being exposed to the elements again.
Probably a rather dull post for those who are not keen on prodding inside an electronic component, but for those who do not mind spending a few pence on a microswitch repair it may be useful.
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Chesterfield
Posts: 3634
Looks like a simple if fiddly repair.
A couple of years ago our electric garage door failed, contacted a few garage door companies and all they would do was quote for a new door opener as 'they are not economic to repair'. We were quoted nearly £500 to supply and fit a new unit I decided to dismantle it and see what had gone wrong, it was a micro switch that had cracked in half costing less than £2 - once replaced as good as new.
11th Jan 2015 7:15 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
It's always worth having a look inside failed electronics. So many repairs are obvious and simple. If the next step is the bin you literally have nothing to lose. If nothing else it gives a ready supply of components for the next repair. I get my daughter to de-solder stuff as a way to learn how to be confident with a soldering iron. She even agreed a while back not to mention her fingerprint burnt on the side of the iron to her mum....
Anyway, that nice chap chopcat is sending me the microswitch off his failed unit - the forum membership saves the day again!
Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
Member Since: 06 Nov 2004
Location: Hook Norton
Posts: 18452
I bet you'd find a microswitch on CPC or RS - does the choccy button sized cap pop off it?06 D3 SE / 15 LR D90 XS SW / 88 LR 90 Td5 / 68 BMW 2000 ti
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11th Jan 2015 9:16 pm
Robbie
Member Since: 05 Feb 2006
Location: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posts: 17932
Yep.Land Rover - Turning Drivers into Mechanics Since 1948
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I decided to dismantle it and see what had gone wrong, it was a micro switch that had cracked in half costing less than £2 - once replaced as good as new.
