Member Since: 08 Jul 2017
Location: Naxxar
Posts: 13
Crankshaft bearing failure - fix/prevention
I am thinking about getting a disco 3, mainly for overland trips with family and friends, which will include some offroading. Although there are many faults which can occur on this model, the one which makes me really concerned is the one involving the crankshaft bearing.
As I see it, due to a manufacturing defect, hundreds of discovery 3 and 4 and even some rrs have left their owners on the hard shoulder. The fault occurs suddenly, without warning, and causes the engine to seize and die. People who have reported this most of the time describe how there was no indication of the problem, like smoke, loss of power or loss of fluids. In some cases the users described some seriously heavy knocking noise a few minutes before, which is not enough to take you back to civilisation.
Now my question is, I am sure many people use it for the same purpose as I am willing to do, so there must be a fix - a prevention for this problem. I could not find an official fix from land rover but maybe someone managed to fix it by fitting some aftermarket heavy duty bearings (ARP for instance). Or maybe any other idea?
Looking forward to what more experienced people think about this.
thanks
Mark
27th Oct 2017 9:48 pm
Dan_NL
Member Since: 19 Sep 2010
Location: world
Posts: 1213
Hi Mark, there is no fix. You con only reduce the risk by getting a car that has been maintained properly.
Generally the timely replacement of the oil pump is one way of reducing the risk. Buying a petrol reduces the risk significantly, but I don't think that's in line with your thoughts
Also replacing all injectors,not just the one that fails gives some peace of mind. But the risk will always remain.
Taking the engine apart and replacing the bearings is a drastic approach. I never heared of it, only that many original parts one needs when replacing are hard to find.
27th Oct 2017 10:10 pm
galwaygreen
Member Since: 30 Oct 2011
Location: plymouth
Posts: 6525
if you had the engine apart I would have thought a bronze dowel drilled through the bearing into the steel caps would help...soft enough to wear down as required.....bit of a to strip down just to do this.
27th Oct 2017 10:16 pm
mad85
Member Since: 08 Jul 2017
Location: Naxxar
Posts: 13
From what i have read, the problem is not related to have a car which has not been maintained properly but to manufacturing defect so there is excessive vibration on the bearings, specifically the ones on the sixth cylinder.
Taking the engine apart might sound drastic but if it gives me peace of mind... The problem effects more than1% of the engines produced, which is a significant amount.
27th Oct 2017 10:23 pm
Keefaaa
Member Since: 26 Sep 2017
Location: The North
Posts: 55
For the type of bearing failure occurring in these engines (poor fit as far as I can read on the net) the wear particles from the bearings will be present in the engine oil long before the defects develops to a catastrophic failure.
You can detect and monitor the degradation of the bearings using oil sampling, if you can - use a lab like Alcontrol or Monition rather than a 'car oil lab' I'm not convinced the off the shelf car ones have the same capabilities. If you send to an industrial biased lab they can match your oil still and you can ask for a check on the sample for anything over 20 microns, you'll then have an option to do wear particle analysis with the Electron microscope.
This all seems rather in depth an over the top but it's actually a step process that will cost you around 20gbp which will tell you enough to decide if you need to proceed further.
Additionally you could measure vibration on the crank but I doubt you have a Vibration Analyser lying around!
Really as Dan_NL says you can't prevent only predict. If you test and find a defect it's a case of monitor development until failure while changing oil/filter as often as possible.
27th Oct 2017 10:30 pm
pjm-84
Member Since: 04 Oct 2016
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2592
Quote:
Crankshaft bearing failure - fix/prevention
V8 petrol?
27th Oct 2017 10:49 pm
garrycol
Member Since: 06 Dec 2010
Location: Canberra
Posts: 1130
Prevention - not guaranteed but helps - change oil and filter every 10,000km with correct oil. Most but not all failures a common factor was irregular oil changes with dodgy oil. Yes some have perfect maintenance records bit most do not.
However it is a bit of a lucky dip - if it was a design fault then all engines would be failing - is something to do with use/maintenance but not yet clear what.
28th Oct 2017 1:41 am
Moo D3 Decade
Member Since: 13 Aug 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 14412
How do you know most failures were due to irregular oil changes with dodgy oil? Some on here have done regular oil changes with the correct oil at 6000m others haven't. Some are related to bearing shell rotation, others not and some have been oil pump failures. There's not really a pattern re maintenance.
My old bus is only serviced in line with LR schedule, i.e. every 15,000miles. 12.5 years, 215,000 miles later she is in fine form and fettle with the original oil pump, turbo and injectors but also has had a remap and larger IC fitted for most of her life.
Unfortunately it's the nature of sites like this that it makes it appear that there are high failures rates, yet the reality is different and well within expected tolerances. Its just unfortunate if it happens to you.D4 HSE EU6 (Known as Jeeves)
New Defender L663 110 SE (known as Noddy!) Sold
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No longer the Old Buses original owner
231,000 miles and counting
05 S manual owned from March 2005
D4 Face lifted
Still original injectors and turbo
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BAS Remap, Allisport Intercooler and deCat
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28th Oct 2017 6:54 am
mad85
Member Since: 08 Jul 2017
Location: Naxxar
Posts: 13
Thanks all, i will sure look for a disco 3, preferably without too many miles on it
28th Oct 2017 7:02 am
M3DPO
Member Since: 22 Sep 2010
Location: Notts.
Posts: 8228
Easiest solution is to take out good repair/breakdown insurance. It can when others can't,
It will when others won't,
It goes where others don't.
28th Oct 2017 7:26 am
mad85
Member Since: 08 Jul 2017
Location: Naxxar
Posts: 13
unfortunately we do not have anything like that in Malta anyway, my biggest concern is not the cost of the repair (of course that as well) but being left stranded near a lake somewhere in Italy
28th Oct 2017 8:18 am
jonno1
Member Since: 16 Jun 2010
Location: SW London
Posts: 717
My friends MY 2014 blew up near Lake Garda with 900miles on clock from new. My MY 2014 has done 28k LR serviced miles. It makes an intermittent tapping noise which Wimbledon LR know about. However, the LR warranty rep made it plain that they don’t pay out on a noise so the Service Manager asked what happens when when the engine lets go. The response was that the car was covered. This conversation was being noted down on my records and the Service Manager got the LR Warranty rep to sign under what he had stated.
28th Oct 2017 11:00 am
robpenrose
Member Since: 12 Jan 2016
Location: Surrey / SW London
Posts: 2138
Surely they should pay out on a noise???
A noise means something isn’t working correctly and is at fault.
I guess the issue is getting the noise diagnosed so that the part can be replaced!
Current: D4 HSE
Previous: BMW Z4M Coupe
Previous: Land Rover Defender 90 CSW Td5
Previous: Land Rover Discovery Td5 ES
28th Oct 2017 1:01 pm
jonno1
Member Since: 16 Jun 2010
Location: SW London
Posts: 717
I think the Service Manager was a bit irritated by the rep's statement, they didn't see why I should pay to have the engine stripped as they felt it could be one of several things. Noise is still there and more frequent now so I may take the car back.
28th Oct 2017 6:19 pm
OJ
Member Since: 01 Oct 2017
Location: Loch Leven
Posts: 725
Moo wrote:
How do you know most failures were due to irregular oil changes with dodgy oil? Some on here have done regular oil changes with the correct oil at 6000m others haven't. Some are related to bearing shell rotation, others not and some have been oil pump failures. There's not really a pattern re maintenance.
My old bus is only serviced in line with LR schedule, i.e. every 15,000miles. 12.5 years, 215,000 miles later she is in fine form and fettle with the original oil pump, turbo and injectors but also has had a remap and larger IC fitted for most of her life.
Unfortunately it's the nature of sites like this that it makes it appear that there are high failures rates, yet the reality is different and well within expected tolerances. Its just unfortunate if it happens to you.
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
to strip down just to do this.
How do you know most failures were due to irregular oil changes with dodgy oil? Some on here have done regular oil changes with the correct oil at 6000m others haven't. Some are related to bearing shell rotation, others not and some have been oil pump failures. There's not really a pattern re maintenance.
