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Crank failure issue
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robpenrose
 


Member Since: 12 Jan 2016
Location: Surrey / SW London
Posts: 2136

United Kingdom 2010 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 HSE Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 4

Its a shame there isn't a procedure to either check the shells or cranks as preventative maintenance.

The BMW M engines S85, S54 etc have problems with their shells. A lot of the owners seem to just change the shells around 80k as a precaution.
 

Current: D4 HSE
Previous: BMW Z4M Coupe
Previous: Land Rover Defender 90 CSW Td5
Previous: Land Rover Discovery Td5 ES 
 
Post #19612648th Jul 2018 11:43 am
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PROFSR G
 


Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4581

Ukraine 2009 Discovery 3 TDV6 Commercial XS Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

Its hard to see why LR would continue with any production component if there was a "significant failure rate", especially as they have been using this engine for some 14 years now.

Its not as if they don't have an alternative with the arrival of the TDV8, albeit having a bigger capacity amongst other considerations. From my knowledge of corporate legal entities they would be screaming in a board meeting regarding any potential exposure to litigation, to say nothing of the noises coming from the bean counters and marketing execs, if the failure rates were having an unsustainable negative impact .

Perhaps the poll on this forum tells its own story in that regard. Personally I would not be put off in buying another D3/4, but like everyone else I would prefer not having to live with the potential of a catastrophe tapping me on the shoulder!
  
Post #19612938th Jul 2018 1:16 pm
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Robert SausageTrousers
 


Member Since: 09 Aug 2015
Location: Cornwall
Posts: 466

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 HSE Auto Bonatti GreyDiscovery 4

Having had the crank issue on my 2010 D4, I did go and buy another one as I still feel there's a very small chance of it happening.

I can't say it doesn't play on my mind a bit though, and wouldn't consider owning one without a comprehensive warranty that will cover the eventuality Laughing
  
Post #19613158th Jul 2018 2:27 pm
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DSL
Keeper of the wheelie bin 


Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72742

Ukraine 

That'll be my crunch point Sept next year as WD warranty will be stupidly expensive. Could be time to move on. Big Cry
   
Post #19613168th Jul 2018 2:33 pm
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PROFSR G
 


Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4581

Ukraine 2009 Discovery 3 TDV6 Commercial XS Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

I suspect there will be a big demand for the 2.0l D5 as the D3 & D4 ages and D5 used values become more attainable. Maybe a TDV8 conversion is the long term solution for D3/4
  
Post #19613378th Jul 2018 4:01 pm
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hugeviking
 


Member Since: 08 Jun 2010
Location: cotswolds
Posts: 1481

United Kingdom 2006 Discovery 3 TDV6 S Manual Cairns BlueDiscovery 3

By which time the aftermarket boys will have bought out a split tailgate and other rear enhancements. Thumbs Up

Andi.
  
Post #19613628th Jul 2018 5:01 pm
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Red Merle
 


Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438

United Kingdom 

Certainly, an SDV8 in the D4 would be a fantastic machine and the very best of all worlds! Very Happy
 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: FL2 as a second car

2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!) 
 
Post #19613658th Jul 2018 5:05 pm
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PROFSR G
 


Member Since: 06 Mar 2017
Location: Lost
Posts: 4581

Ukraine 2009 Discovery 3 TDV6 Commercial XS Auto Stornoway GreyDiscovery 3

I think I read on here that Disco_Mikey had his spanners attacking one as we speak. Should make a great project and looking forward to his success at same. Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
  
Post #19613908th Jul 2018 6:07 pm
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XDAndy
 


Member Since: 16 Jan 2018
Location: Gibraltar
Posts: 597

United Kingdom 2011 Discovery 4 3.0 TDV6 XS Auto Nara BronzeDiscovery 4

Wow.

How much stuff do you have to change along with the engine, do you think?

Would it work in a D3?
  
Post #19615629th Jul 2018 10:46 am
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Browny90
 


Member Since: 19 Jul 2016
Location: Ashbourne
Posts: 686

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Santorini BlackDiscovery 4

I don't see why these days diesels are so limited on millage,

I worked for Scania for a decade, most trucks on the road now will achieve well over a million miles, As I understand that is excessive, it's still just a diesel engine.. Whats the difference?

Why can they last so much longer than car engines? some of the companies runs those trucks 24/7, the engine will only stop for breaks, servicing and to refuel, a driver will do a day shift, jump out and the nightshift driver jumps in. They will easily accumulate our entire cars millage in a year or two.

Maybe I'll buy a Scania tractor unit for my next car Whistle Rolling with laughter

.
 Disco4 MY16 SDV6 Landmark Black
Disco4 MY12 SDV6 XS Orkney Grey (Gone)
Defender 90 200tdi Completely rebuilt. 
 
Post #19615699th Jul 2018 11:08 am
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Red Merle
 


Member Since: 30 Aug 2014
Location: Liskeard
Posts: 7438

United Kingdom 

It’s an interesting point. There are two possibilities that I can think of:

1. Why spend money on components that are built to last for a million miles, when many cars won’t see north of 150-200,000 miles in their entire lives? Especially when most new buyers only want to drive the purchase price as low as possible.

2. You’ve hit on something where these lorry engines are double and triple shifted, with the engine and it’s oil almost permanently in use and hot. When I spoke to Highways Agency staff that were triple shifting D4’s and getting 250-320,000 miles over 3 years they were describing them as extremely reliable.


Also (genuine question), how would the power outputs per litre of those Scania engines compare to those in the Land Rover / Ford / PSA V6’s and V8’s?
 2011 - 2015: 3 x FL2
2015 - 2017: 2 x D4
2017 to date: FFRR SDV8
2023 to date: FL2 as a second car

2021 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200
2022 to date: Hinckley built ‘14 Triumph Trophy 1200 & sidecar!
(One of only two known to exist in the world!) 
 
Post #19615799th Jul 2018 11:54 am
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DSL
Keeper of the wheelie bin 


Member Since: 11 May 2006
Location: Off again! :-)
Posts: 72742

Ukraine 

The problem is not the failure itself, it's the fact that to replace the engine is stupid money, more than the value of the car in many, if not most, cases. If the crank went on mine, and I didn't have a warranty, then she'd be scrapped, stripped or sold on as a spares or repair job, there is no way I would be spending £16k on putting a new engine in her. Plus I wouldn't go down the second hand engine route with the risks that I could be back at square one at any time. It's all risk, which may be moderate to low, vs consequences, which are undoubtedly high. One of the reasons i doubt I'd want to keep a D4 with no warranty. Whilst I can afford to replace the engine, it's a risk I'd rather insure against. If I can't do that then that opens up an interesting can of worms and could spell the end of LR ownership after 30 years and 16 of them last time I counted.
   
Post #19615889th Jul 2018 12:13 pm
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Browny90
 


Member Since: 19 Jul 2016
Location: Ashbourne
Posts: 686

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Santorini BlackDiscovery 4

Red Merle wrote:
It’s an interesting point. There are two possibilities that I can think of:

1. Why spend money on components that are built to last for a million miles, when many cars won’t see north of 150-200,000 miles in their entire lives? Especially when most new buyers only want to drive the purchase price as low as possible.

2. You’ve hit on something where these lorry engines are double and triple shifted, with the engine and it’s oil almost permanently in use and hot. When I spoke to Highways Agency staff that were triple shifting D4’s and getting 250-320,000 miles over 3 years they were describing them as extremely reliable.


Also (genuine question), how would the power outputs per litre of those Scania engines compare to those in the Land Rover / Ford / PSA V6’s and V8’s?


Both good points, I suppose people keeping them for longer means less sales for the manufactures.. so why develop your way out of money..

The smallest Scania Engine is a 9 litre (5 cylinder straight 5) which produces 280 BHP

Max power - 280 hp (206 kW) @ 1900 r/min

Max torque - 1400 Nm @ 1000-1350 r/min

The Truck largest Engine is a 16 Litre (V8 ) which produces 730 BHP

Max Power - 537 kW (730 h.p.) at 1900 rev/min

Max. Torque: 3500 Nm (2581 lbf. ft.) between 1000 and
1350 rev/min
 Disco4 MY16 SDV6 Landmark Black
Disco4 MY12 SDV6 XS Orkney Grey (Gone)
Defender 90 200tdi Completely rebuilt. 
 
Post #19615969th Jul 2018 12:49 pm
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Peakwayfarer
 


Member Since: 25 Apr 2016
Location: Uk
Posts: 434

England 

Interesting numbers and larger capacity engines, but mercedes appear to get longevity from the Sprinter engines and those in their suv, size I believe is between 2.1 and 3 litres.

The issue is the life of the engine is the unpredictable failure that causes the concern, if they just needed an overhaul / rebuild at say 100k miles then one could factor it in as you did in the good old days.
I remember my dad stripping and rebuilding a 1966 triumph 2000 engine in the seventies at around 80k miles to replace the shells etc. That engine and car which my cousin now has is still going strong today, although the bodywork is getting a bit rusty so being slowly restored.

Maybe one day sometime will publish the root cause of the failure, so we can mitigate against it, personally I don’t think the stop start helps engine life at all.
  
Post #19616079th Jul 2018 1:04 pm
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Browny90
 


Member Since: 19 Jul 2016
Location: Ashbourne
Posts: 686

United Kingdom 2016 Discovery 4 3.0 SDV6 Landmark LE Auto Santorini BlackDiscovery 4

Another possible avenue, I think would be a good idea,,

AT Rolls-Royce Civil Aerospace, (and I'm sure every other aero engine manufacturer) have life ,
limited parts, where as a certain part in the engine is given affectively a life limit.

So part x has a life of say 2000 cycles (one cycle is classed as Taxi, Take off, Climb, Cruise, Decent and Thrust reverse) as each of those points causes a certain amount of calculated wear on the engine.

The flights are monitored and when the life is reaching its limit the engine comes off wing and the life limed parts assessed and replaced.

If for example LR were to say the cranks are guaranteed to reach 150,000 miles, anything before that we will cover under the warranty and anything after we will not. or will give an x contribution to the replacement or something. At least then everyone knows what page they are on.

Also then, people could do some preventative measures, like have the crank replaced at 145,000 for a far less cost than an engine.
 Disco4 MY16 SDV6 Landmark Black
Disco4 MY12 SDV6 XS Orkney Grey (Gone)
Defender 90 200tdi Completely rebuilt. 
 
Post #19616089th Jul 2018 1:06 pm
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