Member Since: 24 Jan 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1526
Brake failure
Well kinda..
Was driving to the vets, doing about 55 when a van decided to turn from the opposite direction across my lane up a very tight turning, which once there he realised he couldn’t make so was left straddled accross my lane.
I hit the anchors and nothing happened. As I was heading straight for him without very much sign of slowing down despite my full pressure on the pedal (I think I sucked some of the chair up my backside too) I had two options, hit the epb and pray, or swerve round the small gap behind him into the opposite lane and hope no one was coming the other way.. I chose option 2.
The rest of the journey the brakes kinda worked, but as I was driving much slower as a precaution maybe that’s why.
The journey home the brakes seemed better but still not right. It’s like you press the pedal and nothing happens, then the pedal sinks a little and you get some braking. I didn’t have any butt clenching moments but I also didn’t have any emergency braking scenarios, just normal braking.
I replaced the rear pads and one Calliper a few months back before Xmas and it had MOT in January which it passed but the bloke mentioned something about “lucky I have an electronic brake as otherwise it would have failed the brake test”. He said it must be because the new pads were bedding in, but they had been on there a couple of months already so should have been well bedded in by then, and the brakes had been working fine as far as I was aware.
The brakes have been fine up until yesterday, it’s been in the local Indy for some unrelated work and thier numerous road tests they never mentioned the brakes seemed dodgy.
The front pads look ok, well the outside ones you can see without removing the wheel anyway.
I’ve also noticed a small drop in mpg, this happened since changing the alternator and viscous fan just before Xmas.
So it could be a sticky calliper but none of the wheels seems excessively hot after a drive.
My first job will be to strip and clean the older rear calliper and see if that makes a difference . Then the two fronts. If that doesn’t improve things, then I’m lost for ideas.
I’ve heard about the oil in the servo problem, but if I’m correct, that makes a hard pedal due to loss of vacuum rather than a spongy one with no braking..
Any other ideas?
16th Feb 2019 11:48 am
yogi972
Member Since: 05 Jun 2011
Location: Kineton
Posts: 3372
Oil in the brake servo?
Lots on here about it,
My parents d3 just had a new servo, although it had already been recalled previously to rectify the problem
All good now... until it fills with oil again...
16th Feb 2019 11:57 am
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10363
I can't see the point in stripping down calipers. That wouldn't cause all your brakes to fail.
calipers tend to fail on these getting stuck on (if one wheel is warmer).
You either have air in the brakes (if you didn't bleed well after caliper change)
or as said the servo problem. (remove servo vac line, and use a white cable tie as a dip stick to see if there is oil in the bottom)
Having re read your post, it does sound like the servo recall issue. and the one way valve.
Post a photo of the drivers side of the engine bay if you can.
If you have 2 servo vac pipes and valve the recall has been done. (although that don't mean it won't fail again)
16th Feb 2019 12:15 pm
Johnny Oxford
Member Since: 14 Dec 2014
Location: Chinnor
Posts: 515
I had similar experience.
Turned out to be oil in the brake servo.
The recall had been done, it failed again.
Ended up having a new vacuum pump fitted.
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16th Feb 2019 12:59 pm
tcr4x4
Member Since: 24 Jan 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1526
Think the recall has been done before. It has the 2 pipes by the servo. I’ll pop the vacuum port for and stick something in there too see if it’s filled again.
Can’t afford a new vac pump and servo if the price I saw charged earlier whilst searching was correct over £1000 for parts and labour.
Just spent £2000 on other work a few weeks back.
16th Feb 2019 1:16 pm
cable
Member Since: 08 Jul 2012
Location: bristol
Posts: 174
I had the hard break pedal and very little braking power some months ago, checked and the mod had never been done. But definitely hard pedal not spongy.
Don't sell the D2.
16th Feb 2019 2:01 pm
tcr4x4
Member Since: 24 Jan 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1526
That’s what makes me thing it’s not oil in the servo.. it’s a spongy pedal, not hard. I had the vacuum fail on the d2 before.. that meant no brakes and a rock solid pedal.
16th Feb 2019 2:11 pm
cable
Member Since: 08 Jul 2012
Location: bristol
Posts: 174
Stupid question I know, but plenty of brake fluid in the reservoir?
16th Feb 2019 2:42 pm
tcr4x4
Member Since: 24 Jan 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1526
I believe so.. can’t look right now as got guests coming and wife has me on a tidying spree, but I’ll check everything fully tomorrow.
16th Feb 2019 2:45 pm
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10363
could be air in the system then.
Did the tank run dry when the caliper was replaced?
16th Feb 2019 3:07 pm
tcr4x4
Member Since: 24 Jan 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1526
I changed the calliper in about October, so it’s unlikely to be air in the system as it’s been fine up until yesterday.
16th Feb 2019 4:50 pm
tcr4x4
Member Since: 24 Jan 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1526
I can't get the vacuum bung out but there is a little oil in this connection which would lead me to assume the servo has some too.
The brake fluid level is above min but a little lower than I'd like, so I'll buy some more to top up.
17th Feb 2019 11:23 am
tcr4x4
Member Since: 24 Jan 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1526
Been reading lots of threads about this, and people talking of a gurgling sound, which is the oil in the servo.
I get a gurgling sound on startup which I always assumed was something to do with the heater or cooling system. Pretty sure it’s always done it since I’ve had the car (3 years or so).
Is this the same gurgle others have had, when does the oil in servo gurgle happen?
As I mentioned before an Indy had the car for over a week and completely stripped the engine trying to find oil leak (ironic) and Test drove it Multiple times but never mentioned the brakes seemed underpowered or anything about the gurgle.
17th Feb 2019 11:47 am
Pete K
Member Since: 15 Jan 2016
Location: GL
Posts: 10363
TSB
Quote:
A concern has been identified on the above vehicles where oil is collecting in the brake booster
causing a progressive loss of brake assistance, resulting in hard brake pedal and increased
stopping distances for the same pedal effort. Engine oil in the brake master cylinder will lead to a
loss of one or both of the foundation brake system hydraulic brake circuits and therefore
increased brake pedal travel, increased stopping distances and, in the event of both primary and
secondary brake master cylinder seal failure, a total loss of service brakes.
Temporary sticking of the non-return valve leads to a temporary loss of vacuum assistance on
the braking system. The hydraulic braking system itself remains fully functional. Once the valve
has unstuck the booster vacuum is immediately restored, full braking assistance is available, and
the brakes perform normally for the remainder of that drive cycle.
17th Feb 2019 12:03 pm
tcr4x4
Member Since: 24 Jan 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1526
It’s already had the recall work done, so it’s failed again if that’s the issue.
I simply can’t afford the £1500 or whatever it will be to replace it all right now having just spent £2k on the oil leak work a few weeks ago.
I just need to be sure that is the issue before deciding what to do.
I tried to prise the bung out of the servo but I couldn’t do it. Does the whole bung come out or does the pipe slide into it? When I did the d2 the bung was part of the pipe.
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