Member Since: 23 Feb 2007
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 246
Air hose failures: Risk
The front air suspension hoses on TDV6 Discovery 3 models is exposed to risk of failure, resulting in the disabling of all special functions. (If you are in heavy sand, rocky terrain or in mud, you will be stranded). The hoses melt/ disintegrate and the vehicle is left with its nose on rubber stoppers, no suspension (lower than access height) and limited clearance. No vehicles are factory fitted with adequate heat shields to avoid this.
There is no early warning before collapse. My 2006 HSE TDV6’s front suspension gave way at speed. It collapsed with loss of control when I hit gravel, whilst pulling off: the front jumping in uncontrollable fashion. I was left stuck in a dust storm in 39° C for 11 hours with my family. The vehicle’s hoses was fitted with a temporary road side fix (not disclosed at the time) and I was required to have the vehicle stripped thereafter and it was refitted with other full shields. All whilst on holiday, I effectively lost 2 days. (My first TDV6 was returned after numerous air suspension failures over 10 months (during less than 20000km), these failures being mostly on expedition/ holiday). I then took delivery of the current vehicle in August 2006, with the failure in December at about 7500km: we never learn. It is (could be) a great vehicle.
In Africa (or off road, anywhere) failure is a major risk and concern, given distances, terrain and adverse conditions: All special functions being disabled and the vehicle not driveable off road.
Land Rover SA (LRSA) has been aware of this major problem since at least September 2006 (or earlier), but they decided not to disclose this significant risk to owners and wait until the vehicles fail. In Namibia, eg, Kuadom or Kaokaland this will be a huge problem…
In Africa, reliability is a major concern.
LRSA’s responses were contradictory, evasive and unsatisfactory, all done “without prejudiceâ€, thus unreliable.
I was offered R1500,00 as a goodwill contribution -- towards buying LR gear!
23rd Feb 2007 3:18 pm
10forcash
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
Hmmm..... so how many failures are you aware of then?
The only one's i've seen have been to landing heavily and compressing the suspension in it's mounts to the point where a body seam cut the pipe, neither the TDV6 or the V8 petrol generate enough ambient heat to cause problems with the pipework.... the hottest point in the system is the compressor itself (up to 175 degrees Celcuis) and the plastic pipes show no signs of heat damage there
Surely if this were the case there would be multiple reports of this failure from Aus., SA, Kuwait, Oman, Dubai etc.?
23rd Feb 2007 3:44 pm
captain_sugar
Member Since: 05 Sep 2006
Location: Hradec Kralove
Posts: 1095
Re: Air hose failures: Risk
AP Moller wrote:
I was offered R1500,00 as a goodwill contribution -- towards buying LR gear!
I didn't hear about this problem here in Kuwait, maybe because we don't have D3s with TD engines here.'05 LR3 HSE V8 - Adriatic Blue - Larini Exhaust System - Lamp Guards - Dual battery system - Hidden 12k winch - Rasta Sump Guard
23rd Feb 2007 4:47 pm
Gareth Site Moderator
Member Since: 07 Dec 2004
Location: Bramhall
Posts: 26683
Maybe the issues in LA204-002 affected your vehicle? It sounds like the FBH can burn through the incorrectly routed pipes.
However, you say it was 39 degrees so unlikely to be the FBH burning.
I've had mine off road i temps over 40degC. No probs!
Soory to see you've had this happen. Sounds like a one off!Have a nice day!
2010 Cayenne Diesel with PASM & Off Road Pkg
2005 HSE D3 (Sold)
24th Feb 2007 4:01 am
Baben
Member Since: 15 Feb 2006
Location: Kyalami
Posts: 2059
(Gareth, we have no FBH in our vehicles in SA)
AP, I am sorry to hear you suffered so much with your vehicle.
But I doubt that LR would leave such a delicate part of the suspension system exposed to damage. Do you have pictures to illustrate what you are on about?
We have had a couple of suspension issues, but after the compressor was replaced all has been well, and we have done some crazy things with our TDV6, tens of thousands of kilometers in the real bush, amazing rocky passes, deep rivers, and she has never left us stranded.
24th Feb 2007 7:15 am
captain_sugar
Member Since: 05 Sep 2006
Location: Hradec Kralove
Posts: 1095
Baben wrote:
But I doubt that LR would leave such a delicate part of the suspension system exposed to damage. Do you have pictures to illustrate what you are on about?
Exactly. Strange story!
24th Feb 2007 9:54 am
AP Moller
Member Since: 23 Feb 2007
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 246
The body plates protect the air hoses from damage. The failure of the hoses is heat related. The problem, as explained to me by Land Rover South Africa arises from “arduous†conditions. The hoses burst due to the heat. I was informed that the problem is at a very low % of vehicles, thus no recall. The first figure mentioned was about 20 out of 3000 vehicles. LRSA thereafter declined comments on the figures or occurrences. When asked for more detail, LRSA declined to confirm. I was told that most failures occur in thick sand, in high ambient temperatures. My failure however occurred on a tar road, at high speed (160km/h), well within design specifications. No heavy landing, the vehicle was not yet offroad, save on gravel. I have had two other disco 3’s in heavy offroad conditions Namibia, Botswana and Zambia, in heat, without this problem. Total of 27 000 km without any hoses bursting. Perhaps the new spec air-suspension, ex Range Rover where not configured for the heat of the dieselturbo/ oil sump in the HSE TDV6? Land Rover does not explain. If this was a once-off, LRSA certainly was aware of the problem and had a fix ready. I did not accept the settlement. All I want is a reliable vehicle supported by trustworthy, open and honest Land Rover representatives, lack of which seems to be the real problem (not at the level of dealers, but in LRSA).
Anyone with air hose failures out there?
26th Feb 2007 8:54 am
tempestv8
Member Since: 11 Oct 2006
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 57
Sorry to hear of your woes. This incident would have been absolutely horrible to deal with. I fully sympathise with you and your family for being stranded for 11 hours in such high temperatures. I know that I would want to be sure that I would feel very bad if I had very young children and stuck in a similar situation.
Sadly, for me, it seems that all this sophisticated systems, when working, makes the D3 superior to all other vehicles, but when not functioning (i.e. failed) the D3 is much worse than other conventional vehicles.
How is the D3 worse than 'conventional' vehicles??
If the control arm or diff pinions go in an LC100, how is that car more bearable to sit in in high temperatures than a D3???
What I don't understand about this post is why was the vehicle immovable??? In actual fact, the D3 is better than others as few problems will actually stop it. 'Limp Home' mode is exactly that!
I had complete compressor failure and the car dropped to access height, whilst I was on a very sandy beach. I still managed to get off the beach and drive home.
Furthermore, i had to drive 400km to the nearest dealer to get the compressor replaced, whilst at access height.
I don't understand why the car couldn't be driven with a failed air suspension system. Mine could!
And if I had kids in the car in high temps, I'd drive her home. with the aircon on!Have a nice day!
2010 Cayenne Diesel with PASM & Off Road Pkg
2005 HSE D3 (Sold)
27th Feb 2007 5:53 am
Nash
Member Since: 20 Oct 2006
Location: Barcelona
Posts: 108
Good point Jammo!. I also would like hear teh answer...Nacho
DISCOVERY3 TDV6 HSE Zambezzi
27th Feb 2007 4:09 pm
sideview
Member Since: 02 Dec 2006
Location: in the valley
Posts: 1663
AP Moller wrote:
I did not accept the settlement. All I want is a reliable vehicle supported by trustworthy, open and honest Land Rover representatives, lack of which seems to be the real problem (not at the level of dealers, but in LRSA).
I don't blame you I'd be irate! What's your next step plans to get this resolved?I'm not so good at giving advice...may I offer you a sarcastic comment instead?
Member Since: 09 Jun 2005
Location: Ubique
Posts: 16534
AP Moller, care to indicate where the failure was?
27th Feb 2007 9:29 pm
AP Moller
Member Since: 23 Feb 2007
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 246
Diagram
1. According to LRSA, both front air hoses burst: On the diagram, the numbers 2 and 22 appear to refer to the FRONT plastic hoses that were replaced, also according to what I observed. As a fix these hoses were thereafter covered in another hose (referred to by LRSA as a "heat shield"). 3. LRSA says my vehicle is now to "spec". Anyone else with this “spec� I hope this brings clarity.
2. Thank you for the diagram. Where did you get the diagram? I am very interested to have more information on the vehicle.
3. To those who believe in "limp home mode", further to the above, when the air suspension hoses failed, there was NO SUSPENSION (at the front). It is not simply a failure of the system taking it to access height with a remnant of suspension. It was on its rubber mounts only. On access height the vehicle can be used at low speed, but this was not the position. The conditions were unsuitable for driving (attempted, but abandoned) due to severe unsafe bouncing of the front end. It was recommended to stay put and wait for the LR recovery vehicle.
4.What is so strange about this problem, is that no else seems to have had a similar breakdown (yet), but LRSA, knew about the (undisclosed) problem upfront and had a fix ready!
5. Could it have been "incorrectly routed pipes", fitted at the factory?
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